?

Log in

No account? Create an account
Scheherazade in Blue Jeans
freelance alchemist
No, you guys, this is for reals. 
13th-Aug-2009 10:41 am
Everyone here is a crazy person.
Note up front: This post is not about anyone on my friendslist or even anyone who was on my friendslist at any point. It probably doesn't apply to anyone reading this.

Just so's we're clear.

So I was Gchatting with someone (male) last night, and the topic of a mutual acquaintance (female) arose. And I mentioned with a *shrug* "She doesn't acknowledge my existence."

He was puzzled. "She just doesn't know you."

Me: "She looks right through me. I have tried to become acquainted."

I listed off all of the places where I've been in small groups with the person, have tried to have conversations with her because, after all, she is a friend of my friends and I am friendly, and have been heartily ignored. He said "She's shy, like you."

I said "Yeah, but when someone is in a small group with me, I don't ignore them in favor of the men."

Which led into the big digression, and one that I think my friend still doesn't accept as a real thing - that there are women who do not acknowledge or speak to other women when there are men to focus on. He thinks this isn't the case. I acknowledge that this may or may not be the case with *this specific person*, but that this is a thing that does exist.

This is for reals! And I see it all the time. And he does not, because he's male, so he *does* get the attention of women like this.

Keep in mind that:
1. This is not me whining about wanting attention from this person, because in the situations where we encounter each other, I am already getting way enough attention - usually more than I want.
2. This is not me saying that I specifically am being ignored. I'm not taking this personally. It is just that I lack a penis. Well, an organic penis, anyway. I have a silicone one back in Boston.
3. This is not me asserting that the person in question is definitely one of Those Girls; clearly I do not know this person. It's just the vibe I get, because I have never seen her speak to or acknowledge a women, just flirt with all of the men. But I acknowledge that there could be something there that I'm not seeing.

What is this, then? This is just me asserting that Those Girls exist, the ones who only talk to men. And I understand why my friend is skeptical, because he has a penis and therefore gets fawned over by Those Girls.

Why the post? Because I am read by women as well as men, and I'm sure y'all have encountered Those Girls. So please do speak up and say "Yeah, this is for reals," if you are so inclined.

(Or you could say something more grammatically correct if you'd like. I'm not picky.)
Comments 
13th-Aug-2009 03:03 pm (UTC)
Oh, it's quite true about women sometimes ignoring female friends and acquaintances in favor of men of interest. At the same time, men also do it in regard to fellow men, often gravitating toward women of interest to me, even if I know there's no potential for a sex thing, but just for the attention and affirmation that they like my company.
13th-Aug-2009 03:04 pm (UTC)
Just as there are women who only speak with men, there are men who only speak with women. It's for reals.
13th-Aug-2009 03:06 pm (UTC)
Is that, too, yes.

I tend to notice the guys who ignore other guys and jockey for position, though, because I automatically put people like that on my "do not schtup" list. Disrespect is not sexy!
13th-Aug-2009 03:06 pm (UTC)
For reals. Women just fall off the radar for some het. women when men are present. It's not a mean thing, it's just that the radar has a default "target:penis" setting. I've even met a lesbian who absolutely does not have men on her radar. They just don't register.

There is a male corollary: there are men who have female friends up until they start dating a woman. Once the dating starts, the female friends fall off their radar.
13th-Aug-2009 04:18 pm (UTC)
there are men who have female friends up until they start dating a woman. Once the dating starts, the female friends fall off their radar.

This. In SPADES. I hate this, and I encounter it quite a bit.
13th-Aug-2009 03:06 pm (UTC) - Oh yes...
I am ashamed to admit that there was a time in college when I was one of these women...

But they do indeed exist--at times it can be annoying, most of the time it is just ignorable.
13th-Aug-2009 03:07 pm (UTC) - Re: Oh yes...
Yeah, this one is totally ignorable; I would never have thought to bring it up had she not been brought up as a topic for another reason.
13th-Aug-2009 03:08 pm (UTC)
Oh it absolutely exists. Our culture spends so much time telling women that they do not have worth except for the worth of the man that they are with, I think it would be more surprising if these women *didn't* exist. It's really hard not to get that shit ingrained, and believe that you are in direct competition with every woman in your vicinity at all times. And there's all the other lies our society tells us about women, so some of us become the women who "don't like other women" because women are bitches, obviously!
13th-Aug-2009 03:11 pm (UTC)
This is pretty much my exact comment. For years I would have said that other women just don't like me when in reality I was engaging in the sort of attention seeking behavior that guaranteed male attention and thus alienating myself from the other women in the room. I stopped acting that way and now I have tons of female friends.
13th-Aug-2009 03:09 pm (UTC)
Oh I've totally had this experience, more than once. I've gone through all the theorizing about it, I'm too loud, too boistrous, to dynamic (I talk with my entire body).

Then I started dating my boyfriend and he's all those things and more than I am, so it obviously had nothing to do with personality. Heh. He used to suggest that maybe I was being a little paranoid, until the first time one of the girls I'd mentioned doing this, literally walked into a conversation between the two of us, stood between us with her back to me, and started talking to him. That's really the only time its made me angry, just because it was sooooo over the top rude. Usually its just a shrug and move on moment.

Now that he's seen it for himself, in such a blatant fashion, he's able to recognize it alot easier, these days. Not to mention he's learned to trust me when I point it out.
(Deleted comment)
13th-Aug-2009 03:31 pm (UTC)
he had used me as an alibi to her husband and another man's wife, all while telling me nothing happened, they were just "talking" but that the others wouldn't understand

**headdesk**
(Deleted comment)
13th-Aug-2009 03:10 pm (UTC)
Yep.

13th-Aug-2009 03:13 pm (UTC)
This is totally for reals. And if he wants to see it in action, he can watch the last season of "Real Housewives of NYC", where one of the women is TOTALLY like that in front of America.
13th-Aug-2009 03:15 pm (UTC)
Yep, this happens.

(I also have a friend who doesn't quite do this, but does actively seem to drop about 30 IQ points when a guy over the age of about 12 is in the room. It's *unnerving*.)
13th-Aug-2009 03:31 pm (UTC)
Oh! I know a couple of those, too.
So creepy.

I have a friend who used to do that when she was 17-20 or so. I was one of the exceptions, since I knew she was smart, she didn't feel she had to drop IQ around me unless there were other men in the room.

She grew out of it.
13th-Aug-2009 03:23 pm (UTC)
It's possible that I'm one of Those Girls, but not for flirtatious reasons. I just don't get on well with other women. Never have, probably never will.

I just don't speak the language. I can fake it for a while, sure, but it's ultimately more effort than it's worth. Men are far less trying.
13th-Aug-2009 03:31 pm (UTC)
Bravo, exactly what I was trying to say in my comment below!
13th-Aug-2009 03:23 pm (UTC)
Yep they are out there. There seem to be some of every type, regardless of gender. Plenty of men ignore women who are not on their list of have slept with, want to sleep with or are sleeping with. If you are not in those categories, you might as well not be there. People focus on those they are attracted to, everything else is not noticed or acknowledged. It is annoying to be the ignored one after a few occurrences, I tend to just ignore the person in return.
13th-Aug-2009 03:29 pm (UTC)
There are people who doubt this? Every guy I know well knows/has met women like this. It's notorious.

(It's often a warning sign of "do not get involved, because they are not very balanced".)

And I'm sure someone has already pointed out that there are men like this, too.

We're talking, of course, of the "ignore if the target sex is in the room" type. Lots of people, focus more on the target type because they are shameless flirt, but there is a select group that makes one sex entirely disappear.

Not to be confused with the person who focuses on their crush, which is person-specific and not sex/gender-specific
13th-Aug-2009 03:35 pm (UTC)
We're talking, of course, of the "ignore if the target sex is in the room" type. Lots of people, focus more on the target type because they are shameless flirt, but there is a select group that makes one sex entirely disappear.

Not to be confused with the person who focuses on their crush, which is person-specific and not sex/gender-specific


Yep, you got it.
13th-Aug-2009 03:30 pm (UTC)
Oh yeah. It's so true. I've had females who will ask my partner questions about me, while I'm standing right there, as if I weren't able to answer on my own. It's just that males are much more fascinating to talk to! I have been pretty ruthless in cutting social ties with that kind of person.

But there are indeed women just like you describe. I'm never sure if I'm a threat to them in some way, so that marginalizing my participation makes them feel secure? Or have I offended them in the past? Or did I offend them today? I usually just wind up shrugging and saying, "She's one of those!" and moving on.

I admit that I don't have many close female friends, and that this type of snubbing has contributed to my general disinterest, but I hope to Og that I'm never so bad as to be one of "Those Girls"...
13th-Aug-2009 03:33 pm (UTC)
I've had females who will ask my partner questions about me, while I'm standing right there, as if I weren't able to answer on my own.

I've had people do this when I'm with friends in wheelchairs. They will ask me questions about my friend-on-wheels. I find this baffling, and just redirect with "I don't know; you should ask her!"
13th-Aug-2009 03:31 pm (UTC)
I survived both an all-girls school and a sorority house. There are girls like this. There are also guys who do the same thing.
13th-Aug-2009 03:41 pm (UTC) - Those Girls exist, Those Guys exist, etc.
I relate way more to women then men (part of how I am a dyke, though not all dykes are like this), so I tend to pay waaay more attention to women then men.
I will definitely acknowledge a guy's existence, though, and talk to him if he talks to me. Something that I do is to ignore a guy more if he tries to draw attention to himself. I've noticed this in poly gatherings, that certain guys worm their way into conversations and do whatever they can to get the focus of the prettiest girl in the room. Those guys annoy me so much that I try to pretend they aren't there.
13th-Aug-2009 08:09 pm (UTC) - Re: Those Girls exist, Those Guys exist, etc.
I've noticed this in poly gatherings, that certain guys worm their way into conversations and do whatever they can to get the focus of the prettiest girl in the room.

As much as I love to bash the shallow "pseudo-enlightened" attitude of Poly guys, that's hardly a poly trait. That's just a jerk trait.
13th-Aug-2009 03:43 pm (UTC)
Sadly, I think I'm one of the guys who does this.

I think it's mostly because I genuinely feel more comfortable relating to women than I do with men. I don't think that I do this to my close male friends who I'm comfortable with. At least I hope not.

The funny thing is, I generally have little or no sexual desire for the woman I may be doing this to. Despite what SOME people seem to think, I really DON'T want to have sex with the great majority of women I know. :-\

If I notice I'm doing this, I do try to correct it, though.

(Icon used for amusement value only.)
13th-Aug-2009 08:11 pm (UTC)
Despite what SOME people seem to think, I really DON'T want to have sex with the great majority of women I know. :-\

Yeah. I know this particular pain.
13th-Aug-2009 03:45 pm (UTC)
Speaking as someone who is often accused of being one of Those Girls, I can offer some insight; I learned early on that boys were safer to be friends with than girls were. Boys weren't nearly so cruel, catty, manipulative, and horrid to their 'friends' (at least if those friends were girls,) than girls were to their friends. Some of the worst psychological and physical bullying I went through was at the hands of girls who called themselves my 'friends'.

Ergo, even to this day, I seek the company of men as friends, because sure; there's always a sexual component to that, but I can manage that, can keep it in perspective, and not allow it to destroy the friendship. Girls, though, I just do not trust. I can tell when a guy is lying to me, and I can usually tell why he's doing it (often involving his penis, or perception thereof,) I can often tell when a girl's lying to me too, but I have a much harder time figuring out why the fuck she would bother.

Girls do have to work harder to win my trust, and that's going to come across in a casual, acquaintance setting, as me snubbing the girls in favour of male attention. It's really self-protection. I don't trust girls, generally, not to turn cannibal on me.
13th-Aug-2009 10:33 pm (UTC)
Right, but I've seen you at parties and in crowds. While you certainly draw male attention, and reward it with reciprocal attention, I haven't seen you categorically ignoring everything female.
13th-Aug-2009 03:45 pm (UTC)
I do this, completely and totally, and it's one of the things I struggle with the most: clearly, if there are men, they are there to be entertained/catered to, that's my job. Do they need a drink? Do they have enough to eat? Are the children bothering them? Is anything going to make them unhappy, because god knows, we don't want them unhappy.

Women, frankly, can take care of themselves, and generally, the conversations I have with women are not conversations you have when men are there.

Yes, unhealthy, ingrained behavior, one that's hard as hell to get out of my system, reinforced continually by being in an environment where my perspective is not unique.

But then you travel, and you encounter other women who aren't in that same frame of reference, and that's when you realize that isn't the default setting. And it's not that the men are all that wonderful, frankly. It's that's what you do in mixed company; it just is.

And to make behavior that just is, just not, is far harder than you may think. Luckily, I surround myself with strong, opinionated women who are pretty much unignorable.

A view from the other side of the fence, anyway.
13th-Aug-2009 09:37 pm (UTC)
generally, the conversations I have with women are not conversations you have when men are there

The Bechdel Test as applied to real life?
13th-Aug-2009 03:50 pm (UTC)
Yeah, this is for reals.

I've seen it many many times, and it is perhaps why I don't have any close female friends these days.

Although my current gripe is the female who totally ignores my presence until my partner is around, then acts like my bestest friend. And he can't understand why I wouldn't like her. Being nice to me, just to get to him is a low cheap dating tactic!
13th-Aug-2009 03:51 pm (UTC)
Of course it's real. Just as there are het guys who will ignore the women in the group, because they're more comfortable talking to guys. (Or ignore the men, to concentrate on the women, as you noted).

And just about all variations.
13th-Aug-2009 03:52 pm (UTC) - See also
that there are women who do not acknowledge or speak to other women when there are men to focus on

Change "women" to "men" and vice versa and the sentence is still quite true.

Also, I've noticed that you can truncate the sentence to "that there are women who do not acknowledge or speak to other women" and it would also be true.
13th-Aug-2009 03:53 pm (UTC) - Re: See also
Yeah, but there are some cases where they *will* talk to other women, but will flip to ignoring them as soon as a man walks into the room.
13th-Aug-2009 03:53 pm (UTC)
I have seen Those Girls as well. They definitely exist.
13th-Aug-2009 03:57 pm (UTC)
Hell yes these women exist and they're generally unaware they're behaving atrociously.

The other flavor of this person is the one who doesn't ignore you, but instead belittles you.. 'jokingly.' Women are brutal to one another.

Feh, fie, pox. Other archaic curses.

The core of the issue is respect.
13th-Aug-2009 04:02 pm (UTC)
You're not making it up. People like that do exist. (I think I was one of them, a long time ago, in much more insecure days.) I am certain that you're picking up on something real, whatever its underlying cause.

However...now I find, at certain professional gatherings, that I tend to congregate with the men. First, the internal clients to whom I answer are in the overwhelmingly male-dominated parts of my business, so it's appropriate for me to mingle with my clients. Second, it keeps me away from some of the internal politicking in my organization that I can never win. In light of your post, I wonder how that looks to others...
13th-Aug-2009 11:10 pm (UTC)
in business settings i tend to avoid women (except for women in engineering) because they want to talk your ear off and 'be social' and gossip with you. who has time for that at work?
Page 1 of 2
<<[1] [2] >>
This page was loaded Sep 25th 2017, 11:55 am GMT.